Sunday, March 18, 2018

Another St. Augustine monument debated. (SAR, HCN)

Only 681 words.  Does short word length detract from the ability of the Record to cover the news? Does Record want to promote healing? Does Record have the resources from GateHouse to cover the news?  Hint: 681 word stories show GateHouse is starving the Record for column inches, scrunching the "news hole" to make money.  As RFK said, "It is not enough to allow dissent, we must demand it, for there is much to dissent from."

I testified in favor of preserving the General Wm. Loring monument, but adding context, including a seated statue of UF-educated folklorist Stetson Kennedy, who infiltrated KKK and reported on it, sitting with St. Augustine Movement leader Dr. Robert S. Hayling, D.D.S. and Barbara Vickers, looking at the Loring monument, contemplating the progress we've made. See my comments below.

Let's work together, searching for middle ground, compromise and healing.

In the 1960s, the Record's rebarbative then-owner, A.H. "HOPPY TEBEAULT, JR." was a brute force for evil and against civil rights, printing locations of KKK rallies in advance, printing Mayor Shelley's fatwa against demonstrations, threatening students with arrest and lifetime blacklisting, and printing the names and addresses of black children desegregating local schools, resulting in firings, evictions and firebombing.

TEBEAULT was later Vice President at Flagler College, hired as a liaison to the "business community" and advising students, including future Record Opinion Editor JAMES SUTTON, censoring the student newspaper like Republican Lord of All He Surveyed.
]
Enough censorship in St. Augustine, please.

Another St. Augustine monument debated.
By Sheldon Gardner
Posted Mar 16, 2018 at 8:15 PM
Updated Mar 17, 2018 at 6:15 AM
St. Augustine Record

Several months after the city of St. Augustine decided to keep its memorial for Confederate soldiers, University of Florida officials opened the door Friday morning for debate on what the future should be for a Confederate-related monument under the university’s care.

The forum was the Governor’s House Cultural Center and Museum, where members of the UF Historic St. Augustine board meet regularly — the board is charged with caring for state-owned historic properties in the city. The future of the memorial to Confederate Gen. William Loring in downtown St. Augustine is in their hands, said Allen Lastinger, chair of the board.

The board made no decision on Friday and made few if any comments. The event was about hearing from the public and people at the heart of the debate whom the board invited to speak, including St. Paul AME Church pastor the Rev. Ron Rawls and St. Augustine Mayor Nancy Shaver.

Board members are expected to discuss the monument at their April 13 meeting, Lastinger said.

About three dozen people sat in the audience, including St. Augustine residents and city officials. From both the invited speakers and members of the audience, views were divided on whether the Loring memorial should be honored or banished from display in the public square.

The Loring memorial is on the west side of Governor’s House near the corner of Cordova and King streets. It bears the image of American and Confederate flags, and the memorial remembers Loring’s service in the Civil War and other conflicts. Loring’s ashes are buried at the site.

James Cusick, curator of UF’s P.K. Yonge Library of Florida History, said Loring was born in North Carolina and grew up in St. Augustine. Loring joined a militia at 14 years old and had a long military career that included fighting in Second Seminole War and serving in the Egyptian Army, as well as serving in the Confederate forces.

Another memorial is nearby in the Plaza de la Constitucion and lists the names of more than 40 men who died serving the Confederacy. In October, city commissioners voted to keep that monument and organize a contextualization committee to find a way to add historical context to the monument.

Shaver defended that work on Friday, sharing from her background and describing the process that led to the commission’s decision.

She said most of the people she talked to supported keeping the monument, and she said, like St. Augustine’s Plaza, other towns have have memorials to people who died in wars.

“It’s a simple reference to people giving their lives for the place they came from,” Shaver said.

Rawls, who has led multiple protests against both monuments, provided a timeline of racial history including emancipation and history of Confederate monuments in the South. He also touched on some modern-day issues, such as a Facebook post from a man who wrote that hoped Rawls would be shot.

“I simply request that my alma matter, University of Florida, one of the top research universities in the nation, provide just leadership in a city identified by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. as one of the most racist cities in America,” Rawls said.

Timothy Johnson, professor of religion at Flagler College, another invited speaker, also supported the monument’s removal but recommended leaving Loring’s remains on-site and marking them with a “simple tombstone.”

Floyd Phillips, president of the Lincolnville Museum and Cultural Center and an invited speaker, recommended the Loring memorial be removed.

“The symbolism, to me, is non-acceptance of African-Americans as citizens in this community,” Phillips said.

Jill Pacetti, a relative of a man listed on the city’s Confederate memorial, cited an online petition that gathered wide support in favor of keeping both monuments, and she said she’s formed a coalition in favor of keeping monuments and creating a city ordinance to protect and preserve memorials to veterans.

“I know that I speak on behalf of several thousand residents of St. Augustine and St. Johns County when I say that we should be honored to have the remains of St. Augustine’s general buried in our soil,” she said.


Comments
William Estes
  • William Estes
  •  
  • Rank 0
One could always make the adult decision simply not to look at it. There are all sorts of things in life I do not like, but as an adult I make the conscience choice not to participate in them. I regard the Sherman monument in Central Park to be a symbol of rape, murder, looting and arson and yet I make no proposition that it should be removed or defaced. I simply ignore it like an adult. Destroying monuments to people of another time and era or even "contextualizing" them in modern understanding--an application of presentism that used to be frowned upon in historical circles, is not the appropriate way to deal with the past or things that you do not like.« less
  • 1 hour ago
Edward Adelbert Slavin
  • Edward Adelbert Slavin
  •  
  • Rank 0
1. I agree. No one has to look at either monument -- good point! I had the same thought back in August, both at A.M.E. and City Commission, upon hearing some of the kvetching about it from Rev. Rawls' people. There is NO constitutional right not to be offended by a monument to dead veterans. As the son of a decorated WWII combat veteran, who was also a strong supporter of civil rights, I'm offended about the effort to remove veteran monuments and cheapen the cause of civil rights.  
2. I was honored to represent REAL victims of civil rights violatins, including an African-American EPA IG CPA in Atlanta, wrongfully denied his promotion by a racist supervisor for 15 years. Not only did we win his promotion, we exposed the EPA Atlanta Regional Office OIG Audit boss, who said she would never promote the African-American CPA, or a white man who testified in a black man's EEO case. After the EPA OIG SAC established her threat and promise, she was fired as the nationwide EPA Ombuds under President George W. Bush. 
3. General William Tecumseh Sherman was probably the Union's very best General, to whom General Wm. Wing Loring surrendered. It was General Sherman who recommended General Loring for his position in Egypt.  
4. General Sherman saved lives. Lies were told about him as part of the "Lost Cause" myth.  https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-magnitude-of-his-achievement-1466192373. History matters.
Edward Adelbert Slavin
  • Edward Adelbert Slavin
  •  
  • Rank 0
Only 681 words. Does short word length detract from the ability of the Record to cover the news? Does Record want to promote healing? Does Record have the resources from GateHouse to cover the news? Hint: 681 word stories show GateHouse is starving the Record for column inches, scrunching the "news hole" to make more money. As RFK said, "It is not enough to allow dissent, we must demand it, for there is much to dissent from."

I testified in favor of preserving the General Wm. Loring monument, but adding context, including a seated statue of UF-educated folklorist Stetson Kennedy, who infiltrated KKK and reported on it, sitting with St. Augustine Movement leader Dr. Robert S. Hayling, D.D.S. and Barbara Vickers, looking at the Loring monument, contemplating the progress we've made. See my comments below.

Let's work together, searching for middle ground, compromise and healing.«
Edward Adelbert Slavin
  • Edward Adelbert Slavin
  •  
  • Rank 0
1. I spoke to UFHSA in favor of keeping General Wm. W. Loring monument but renaming Loring Park as "Stetson Kennedy Park," in honor of UF-educated folklorist, WPA Guide to Florida Editor, and courageous, ethical KKK infiltrator, with a seated statue: Stetson Kennedy seated next to Barbara Vickers and Dr. Robert S. Hayling, D.D.S, looking at the Loring Monument.
2. We're all Americans. DON'T move or destroy Gen. Loring's monument. There are ten (10) U.S. military bases named for Confederate Generals. Gen. Loring was recommended by Union General Wm. Tecumseh Sherman to the Khedive of Egypt. General Loring toured President and former General U.S. Grant & his wife around Egypt for a month. When Gen. Loring died, he was honored by BOTH Union and Confederate veterans in BOTH NYC and St. Augustine (where they shared a joint camp for a week).
3. What did Abraham Lincoln say? March 4, 1865, Second Inaugural Address, "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the Nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."
4. Let's NOT allow ignorance or fear (or fear of ignorance) to divide us or deter us from that work
5. When the USA won the Civil War, the first tune that Lincoln ordered the band to play was "Dixie." We are one Nation, one people.
6. We're blessed to live in a magical, beautiful place, which survived the Civil War in peace.
7. Let's promote decency, civility, liberty, diversity & peace, preserving and protecting St. Augustine's nature and history forever. Leave Wm. Loring alone, please!« less
  • 1 hour ago
John Bond
  • John Bond
  •  
  • Rank 0
It is time to end the witch hunt of our beloved ansistors ... for it is only a money making scheme for these so called opperssed people ... what it is time for is to tax these people who are getting rich off of false clames of racesim !
  • 2 hours ago
Nancy Warren
  • Nancy Warren
  •  
  • Rank 0
I BELIEVE THERE IS A LAW ABOUT MOVING GRAVES, any GRAVES IN THIS STATE.
Since there is an actual buried urn containing the General's ashes, perhaps the law regarding removing buried human remains, needs to addressed?

Personally, I believe that the man did much good for his American land, while not serving in the Confederate Army.

I love the fact, SARCASM here ...that General Grant did not go with Lincoln to Richmond after the Confederate surrender because he did NOT want to rub salt into the wound of losing the war, into the hearts of the residents. Plus Grant remained friends with several Confederate Generals long AFTER THE WAR.

In fact one of his last visitors was Confederate General Buckner, who wrote notes back and forth with Grant, as the President could no longer speak DUE TO THROAT CANCER.

Some present day Americans need to take a position similar to General and later President Grant....THAT WAR OF DIVISION IS LONG OVER. Let us go forth and have a future together as a UNITED NATION.

Remember your dead and honor them as family but LOVE the United States .« less
  • 7 hours ago
Tommy Longmire
  • Tommy Longmire
  •  
  • Rank 0
General Loring is buried there. Let us “debate” all the MLK monuments too, he was a womanizer.
  • 10 hours ago
John Boyd
  • John Boyd
  •  
  • Rank 0
So you are using history to try and wipe out history?

“I simply request that my alma matter, University of Florida, one of the top research universities in the nation, provide just leadership in a city identified by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. as one of the most racist cities in America,” Rawls said.

Maybe it was at one time like many other Southern towns. When are we going to start tearing down the Spanish monuments? What if I’m offended by those being displayed?
  • 14 hours ago
Edward Adelbert Slavin
  • Edward Adelbert Slavin
  •  
  • Rank 0
1. We're NOT tearing down the Castillo. We're NOT tearing down the statues of Ponce de Leon or Pedro Menendez de Aviles, either. St. Augustine's most important product is history -- ALL of it.
2. Let's ADD explanations, context and more museums and monuments, including a large nation civil rights museum, like the one that was assembled by my late law professor, Judge D'Army Bailey, in Memphis.
3. Lesson learned: let's tell ALL of our history, "warts and all," including African-American, Civil Rights and Menorcan history, which are NOT told well by UF or City or private sector tourist "attractions."
4. We can do it right with a St. Augustine National Historical Park and National Seashore, first proposed 79 years ago, in 1939, "by St. Augustine Mayor Walter Fraser, then-Senators Claude Pepper and Charles Andrews and then-Rep. Joseph Hendricks. The time for action is now. " http://www.staugustine.com/article/20140202/OPINION/302029933
5. Let's persuade Congress to enact a National Park and Seashore Study Amendment, with local hearings and planning to preserve our history and nature here. Will Rev. Rawls finally join with us in working for a National Park and Seashore? www.staugustgreen.com ? We can have NPS rangers giving tours of his church and the other holy places where Rev Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. spoke, just as they do in Atlanta. Remember what Nelson Mandela said: "We enter into a covenant, that we shall build a society in which all South Africans , both black and white, will be able to walk tall without any fear in their hearts, assured of their inalienable right to human dignity: a rainbow nation, at peace with itself and the world,"« less
  • 16 minutes ago
Edward Adelbert Slavin
  • Edward Adelbert Slavin
  •  
  • Rank 0
6. On the General Loring monument, let's pray for homophobic Rev. Rawls to "try tolerance" (in the words of a District of Columbia Court of Appeals Judge during oral argument of Gay Rights Coalition v. Georgetown University, 536 A.2d 1 (D. C. App. 1987).  https://law.justia.com/cases/district-of-columbia/court-of-appeals/1987/84-50-4.html
7. Does Rawls' virulent anti-Gay marriage hatred (now hidden behind a password on YouTube) resemble his hatred of dead Confederates? Is Rawls just a demagogue and a control freak, who lives to give others orders? Has Rawls abused the trust of his few misguided followers, staging "Amateur Hour" guerilla-theatrical demonstrations, shedding more heat than light, brandishing inapposite signs from elsewhere?
8. Is Rawls a bumptious bully, a tiresome tedious tendentious termagant, who has overplayed his hand? Rawls does NOT speak for me, or for our community. He's driving in daily from Gainesville, emitting unctuous ukases--unilateral demands to "REMOVE THEM NOW!").
9. Is Rawls not unlike an arrogant would-be dictator dictating his dicta? Rawls lacks empathy. Rawls does NOT promote healing.
10. Since 2007, Rawls has often been AWOL on environmental justice (like our 2008 victory over City's legal dumping of a landfill in a lake in West Augustine). Rawls REFUSED to join seven of us in petitioning FDEP for a hearing (an effort that HALTED City-FDEP efforts to truck 2000 truckloads of contaminated solid waste back to Lincolnville, plop dirt on top of it and call it a "park"). Rawls let us hold 2 meetings at A.M.E., but did NOT sign our petition.
11. He'd rather attack the monuments to dead veterans than help win REAL victories for living people, against living oppressors (e.g., Sheriff DAVID SHOAR re: the Michelle Oconnell case)
  • 2 minutes ago (edited recently)
David Cash
  • David Cash
  •  
  • Rank 0
The grave marker of General Loring cannot be removed nor should it. It is a felony to remove or damage a grave marker. This action would require a court order and there would need to be good reason for doing so. Just bc a group of people have decided to be offended is not a good reason.
  • 16 hours ago
Michael Gold
  • Michael Gold
  •  
  • Rank 0
The two issues that stand in the way of UF Historic St Augustine, Inc., and the DSO actually doing anything with the memorial monument, were identified by Cusick. The first is the research done by UF and others that indicates ownership of the real property.is vested in the State of Florida's Internal Improvement Trust Fund.The trustees of that body are not part of the DSO, nor were they represented. The second is the fact that, since Loring's remains are physically buried with the memorial, the entombmemn is regulated by Florida law -- not the emotions a fanatic who has publicly stated he is intent on disrupting business and tourism in St Augustine.« less



Bruce Kendeigh
  • Bruce Kendeigh
  •  
  • Rank 0
Rad. Rev. Rawls requests his alma matter to stand behind him in this racial agitation...in a city described by Dr.
Martin Luther King ...IN THE SIXTIES...as the most racist cities in America.
C’mon Reverend...as an African American, how did you and your college educated wife SUCCEED against
whitey’s boot on your respective necks ?

Just like US other disadvantaged folks, nose to the grindstone, makin’ babies after you were married, studied
and worked SEVERAL jobs just to achieve what you and your wife have earned...

These monuments didn’t hinder YOU, or OTHER downtrodden African Americans, to prevent achievement.
WORK and STUDY are the keys, as you know...deep in your heart.

If you are, as the words to Tony Joe White’s song, ” shiftless, no count, claimed he had a bad back, stealin’ watermelons outta’ my truck patch...” The dole will be your profession, NOT SUCCESS IF WORKED FOR.« less
  • 5 hours ago
Edward Adelbert Slavin
  • Edward Adelbert Slavin
  •  
  • Rank 0
@Bruce Kendeigh Not helpful, hurtful rhetoric. Does not promote healing.
  • 20 minutes ago
Edward Adelbert Slavin
  • Edward Adelbert Slavin
  •  
  • Rank 0
Use of the word "agitation" and quote from song is freighted with racial animus. Our community is better than this, and so are you. Knock it off, please. Stick to the merits.


---------


From Historic City News:






UF Historic St Augustine delays action on monument


The Friday morning meeting of the UF Historic St Augustine Board of Directors was called to order by Chairman Allen L. Lastinger, Jr. promptly at 10:00 a.m.  But, if anyone at the table was expecting a “short meeting”, that was not to be.
Security was higher than normal.  St Augustine Chief of Police Barry Fox and three officers were assigned inside and outside the meeting.  The north and south lobby doors to the building, which provide access to limited public restrooms downtown, were locked.  Not only were audience members searched and checked with a metal detector before being allowed in, they were held at bay from the five speakers and members of the Board in a cordoned area of folding chairs.
Then, within 20-minutes of its commencement, Shirley Williams-Collins, a retired teacher and photographer, passed out and collapsed on the floor bringing Lincolnville Museum speaker Floyd Phillips’ comments to a halt.  Chief Fox and several nearby audience members came to Collins’ aid, one maintaining chest compressions until emergency medical personnel arrived.  Collins was stabilized and transferred to a stretcher, then transported by St Johns County EMS to Flagler Hospital.
There were originally seven invited speakers asked by the Board for their comments.  Bill Mignon, a candidate for re-election to the St Johns County School Board, was invited but did not speak.  Mignon told Historic City News editor Michael Gold that he discussed it with school district Superintendent Tim Forson and decided against addressing the Board.  Lastinger announced that another invited speaker, Rev. Lee, was confirmed but became a no-show.
The remaining five speakers were:
  • James G Cusick
  • Timothy J. Johnson
  • Floyd Phillips
  • Ronald Rawls Jr
  • Mayor Nancy Shaver
Cusick was first to speak.  He pointed out several facts for consideration by the Board.  He presented a military and biographical history of General William Wing Loring.  Cusick also identified issues that he sees for any resolution that involves relocating or altering the monument in Loring Plaza by UF Historic St Augustine, Inc.
Issues pointed out by Cusick were the same as expressed by Historic City News in previous reporting.  Two issues that stand in the way of UF Historic St Augustine doing anything with the memorial include lack of a clear path to ownership of the grave since its dedication in 1920, and a Florida law that provides criminal penalties against anyone who “willfully and knowingly excavates, exposes, moves, removes, or otherwise disturbs the contents of a grave or tomb”.
Liaison between the Board and the University, Ed Poppell, commented that research by the University of Florida indicates that title to the property was transferred from the federal government to the Trustees of the Internal Improvements Trust Fund of the State of Florida.  The block of property from Cathedral Place to King Street, between Cordova Street and St George Street, was used as a post office prior to construction of the current building on King Street.
Although remaining living descendants of General Loring have expressed their wish that his remains not be disturbed or relocated, Poppell said that the University has not found any record of a partial deed transferring rights for the gravesite; so, they are comfortable that there is no enforceable claim on the grave by other parties.
The second issue presents because Loring’s remains are physically buried with the memorial.  The governing law appears to be §872.02(2) F. S. which states, “A person who willfully and knowingly excavates, exposes, moves, removes, or otherwise disturbs the contents of a grave or tomb commits a felony of the second degree.”
Flagler College religion teacher Timothy Johnson expressed his wish that the monument be taken down.  Floyd Phillips is husband to Regina Phillips who manages the Lincolnville Museum and sits on the seven-member Confederate Memorial Contextualization Advisory Committee selected by City Manager John Regan and approved by the city commission.  He also wants to see the monument taken down.  Ronald Rawls Jr, a Gainesville resident whose wife is an employee of the University, is at the center of failed attempts to remove the city-owned Confederate Memorial, and now the Loring Park Memorial.
Mayor Nancy Shaver was the last invited panel member to speak.  She did not speak in favor or opposition to the Loring monument or its removal.  Instead, she shared the process used and tabulated figures provided by the City of St Augustine as to the number of speakers for-and-against preservation of the monument still standing in Constitution Plaza.  She also addressed volumes of hundreds of e-mail correspondence, near and far, that overwhelmingly supported preservation of the Civil War Memorial.  Detractors presented about 1,000 petition signatures to take down the city memorial; however, a group of residents represented by Jill Pacetti as their spokesperson, presented an online poll that garnered some 11,000+ signatures in support of keeping the memorial artifact.
Because the terms of Lease Agreement #2734 between the State of Florida Board Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund, as Lessor, and the University of Florida Board of Trustees, as Lessee, do not provide for the removal of any of the real property subject to the lease, the only action the Board of UF Historic St Augustine could take would be to make a non-binding recommendation to the Department of State for consideration by the Florida cabinet.
The enabling legislation for the lease with UF is, in part, §267.1735(1) F. S. which clarifies “the goal for contracting with the University of Florida is to ensure long-term preservation and interpretation of state-owned historic properties in St. Augustine while facilitating an educational program at the University of Florida that will be responsive to the state’s needs for professionals in historic preservation, archaeology, cultural resource management, cultural tourism, and museum administration and will help meet needs of St. Augustine and the state through educational internships and practicums.
The UF Historic St Augustine Board of Directors will take up discussion of their plans for the monument at their next meeting in April.



xxxx

No comments: