Thursday, October 19, 2017

"CONTEXTUALIZING" AND PRESERVING PLAZA DE LA CONSTITUCION MONUMENTS TO LOCAL CIVIL WAR VETERANS: Rev. Ronald Rawls, Jr. opposes City's plan for healing

Our St. Augustine City Manager, John Patrick Regan, P.E. agrees -- let's add context and more history rather than erasing Confederate history from St. Augustine. Our entire city is a museum. We need the help of the National Park Service, our Senators and Congressmen to create the St. Augustine National Historical Park and National Seashore, first proposed in 1939 by Mayor Walter Fraser, et al.

Posted October 17, 2017 07:27 pm
By SHELDON GARDNER sheldon.gardner@staugustine.com
St. Augustine city manager recommends keeping Confederate monument in Plaza

St. Augustine City Manager John Regan said he’ll ask commissioners to keep a Confederate Monument in the Plaza de la Constitucion, but also add context to help heal divisions in the community.


“It’s very divisive when you start tearing down monuments,” Regan told The Record on Tuesday.

His recommendation comes after an Aug. 28 city meeting where public comment lasted hours as residents shared their opinions on the monument.

Some said it symbolizes slavery and should be moved. Others said it’s a memorial of local men who died that should be kept alongside other war memorials in the Plaza.

Commissioners asked Regan to come back with options, which he’ll talk about at Monday’s meeting at City Hall.

Before the August meeting, and as national debate about the issue spread, St. Paul AME Church pastor Ron Rawls encouraged people to go to the commission meetings and call for the monument’s removal.

The Confederate monument in the Plaza de la Constituction, which was built by the Ladies Memorial Association in the 1870s, is for men who died serving Confederate states. The city controls that part of the plaza. A monument to Confederate Gen. William Loring’s service in the Civil War and other conflicts is in another area of the plaza that is not under city control.

Regan’s presentation will also look at the historical context of the “proliferation of Confederate monuments and memorials” and what other cities have done.

“There are monuments that are derivative of a very sinister period in history that are overt symbols of racism and hatred,” Regan said.

Regan said he believes, through research he and other city officials have done, that removing the monument wouldn’t advance a cause but would be divisive for the community and hinder the city’s ability to work on social justice.

Still, he said, “People, particularly African-Americans … can look at monuments and memorials and have a negative view — there’s a reason for it. It’s valid. … We have to do something to reconcile our community,” he said.

To help, he wants to open an application process for a committee of up to seven people who will identify gaps in the city’s history in the plaza and also develop a “contextualization plan” for the site.

While the city could still elect to move the monument, there are unanswered questions such as who would pay for it, how it could be moved without damaging it and where it would go, according to the city.

8 Comments


Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

I agree with Mr. Regan, the City Manager. Don't remove the monument to Confederate war dead. But add others to contextualize some 14,000 years of human history. Let's promote healing here in St. Augustine. Yes we can!
LikeReply4Oct 17, 2017 10:07pmEdited
Ted Alex Wilson · 

Says a white man. In this case, no we can't.
LikeReplyOct 18, 2017 8:20am
Scott Hodgemire · 

Ted Alex Wilson says some jackass with a FAKE FB account and no clue about history.
LikeReply2Oct 18, 2017 8:33am
John Regan ·

(disclaimer: my name is John Regan. I'm not the City Manager John Regan, I'm his son, I didn't run any of this by him, this is all 100% my opinion only).

A lot of confederate monuments were built in the early 1900s when places were passing Jim Crow laws, and a lot were built in the 1950s during the Civil Rights Movement - basically, they were built to intimidate and threaten black people, plain and simple.

But this memorial was built immediately after the civil war by widows, I don't think it was built with the same goals as those 1900s/1950s memorials and statues were. Plus it's a memorial, not a statue, and there's a really important distinction to make there. A memorial isn't meant to glorify or idolize anybody, whereas a statue is. So a statue of Robert E. Lee built in the 50s is *way* different from a memorial built in the 1870s, in terms of what the builders were trying to accomplish.

I think educating people on when and why this memorial was built so we can differentiate it from other, more hostile statues and memorials is the right way to go.
UnlikeReply720 hrsEdited
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

1. I agree.
2. The surnames on the monument are those of the ancestors of our Menorcan friends and neighbors -- people who did most of the living, working, paying and dying here. In 1777, some 600 Menorcans escaped from slavery (indentured servitude), voting with their feet, walking here from Turnbill's British New Smyrna indigo plantation, where some 600 died of malnutrition and disease. Menorcan history must be told, as part of a St. Augustine National Historical Park and National Seashore.
3. Contextualization must include all of ur history, starting with Native American history and African-American history, as well as Jewish, Greek, Civil War and Civil Rights history. This is a job for the National Park Service.
LikeReply1Oct 18, 2017 9:55am
John Regan ·

Another somewhat-related problem we're having, nationwide-wide, is people insisting the Civil War was about anything besides slavery.

I think a lot of people, upon learning they had an ancestor fight for the confederacy, have a really hard time coming to terms with that fact. So they try and come up with some alternative reason that explains "No, my great-great-grandpa wasn't racist, he was just (blah blah blah)." This is a really insulting thing to do - it's insulting to history, and it's insulting to those most affected by the civil war and slavery.

Unfortunately, a lot of the people wanting to keep memorials and statues are also people who have come up with an alternative narrative for why the Civil War happened. Again, I think it's because "my great-great grandpa was really racist" is a really hard truth to come to terms with.

The reality is that our ancestors fighting for the confederacy were most likely racist. The good news is, you're not your ancestors, you don't have to defend what they did, you just have to accept it. You can't change the story of what happened to make yourself feel better about it, you should learn it, accept it, and figure out what you can do to try and make the world a better place.
LikeReply4Oct 18, 2017 10:17amEdited
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

John Regan Reading the ordinances of secession by the several seceding states, it is beyond cavil that their intention was to preserve their putative "states' rights" to own, buy, sell, whip and exploit people -- the slave trade and its political power caused the civil war.
LikeReply1Oct 18, 2017 11:19am
John Barnes
My question to all white people. Would it have been a good thing if the South had won the war? You can argue this issue all day long. These statues and monuments should be removed from public spaces. People talk about history and heritage. Put it in a book and teach it in a class. The civil war was about nothing but cotton and free labor so the white man could be rich and powerful. Owning another human is evil so I hope my Christian friends will talk to Jesus about this issue. St. Augustine lacks in progressive thought.
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

1. "Would it have been a good thing if the South had won the war?" No.
2. Should the monument be torn down? No.
3. Should new monuments be erected, promoting healing? Yes.
4. Should there be a National Civil Rights Museum here, as part of the St. Augustine National Historical Park and National Seashore? Yes.
5. Should all K-12 students learn civil rights, by state law? Yes. Mississippi did it. So must Florida.
LikeReplyOct 18, 2017 12:16pm
Jackie Rock · 

The slaves lived here just as long, they didn't have the ability to put their names on a memorial monument.
Not at any time. Ever.
This particular monument dedication was made long prior to examples set forth of post Nazi Germany where it's illegal to memorialize or honor those who committed human atrocities during Hitler's reign. Well and Fine that the research allows us to see that. Still, if a monument has a confederate flag and names of those who fought to preserve slavery, we can connect that to current affairs in civil rights issues, then it needs to be addressed with closure and fin
ality despite how uncomfortable it makes some of our community "feel". Until it is resolved truthfully, this current issue of "fairness," in continuing to "honor" the memory of a regime whose primary purpose was to defend the grotesque, bloody, and shameful history of slavery will keep coming back to haunt future city leaders. Social justice warriors will confront this issue no matter how many advisory councils you appoint. With all due respect, Mr. Regan, use caution. An artist on such a committee board may propose to erect a bronze statue one day of a slave woman with torn clothes, exposing her naked breasts, tied up, on her knees, being beaten in front of her baby while the whip is seen in the hand of a looming tall confederate uniformed soldier who's likeness is to someone whose name is etched on that obelisk, or perhaps a modern defender of white supremacy. Now think, how comfortable would that be for anyone?

UnlikeReply2Oct 18, 2017 1:27pm
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

Do you have a sketch? I love your idea. Or how about a slave family being split up for sale?
LikeReply1Oct 18, 2017 1:57pm
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

Slavery in North America began here on September 8, 1565. The King's contract with Pedro Menendez de Aviles' required that he import 500 slaves in five years. While there were free Africans paid for labor, there were also thousands of African-American and Native American slaves. Contextualization must include their stories, and your sculpture is spot on.
LikeReply1Oct 18, 2017 2:45pmEdited
Julie Wingo
Do Not Remove the Confederate War Dead Memorial From The Plaza. Removal of this memorial would be sacrilegious.
UnlikeReply2Oct 18, 2017 3:17pm
Julie Wingo
Quit judging 19th century people by 21st century standards. The 42 names on the Confederate War Dead Memorial were members of this community, who died far from home. Loyalties in the 19th century were to family, community and State in that order and the idea that these common soldiers (many of whom may have been conscripted) would march a thousand miles north to join the Union Army against their community is ludicrous.

Regarding the presence of an unpopular memorial to war dead, see La Cambe German War Dead Memorial located near Bayeux, France. The French allow this memorial to exist in order to honor the German soldiers who gave their lives and not to honor their cause. Perhaps we should take a lesson from the French especially with regards to our own countrymen.
UnlikeReply118 hrs
Bob Mack · 

African-Americans don’t have exclusivity on slavery. Israelites were slaves in Egypt long before. Should the pyramids in the Valley of the Kings be destroyed too ?
LikeReply8 hrs
Sally Trump
Leave it alone
UnlikeReply17 hrs

------------
Posted October 18, 2017 06:29 pm - Updated October 18, 2017 06:30 pm
By SHELDON GARDNER sheldon.gardner@staugustine.com
St. Augustine pastor says it’s no surprise city officials want to keep monument




CHRISTINA.KELSO@STAUGUSTINE.COM People walk by a Confederate monument on the east side of the Plaza de la Constitucion on Wednesday, October 18, 2017.


The Rev. Ron Rawls said he’s not surprised by the city’s recommendation announced Tuesday to keep a Confederate memorial in the Plaza de la Constitucion.

“That just tells me that we have to continue to fight and expose and make noise when we can,” said Rawls, who encouraged people starting in August to press city commissioners to remove two Confederate-related monuments from the plaza.

City Manager John Regan said in an interview with The Record on Wednesday he’ll recommend that city commissioners keep the city-owned monument on the east side of the plaza in part because of its ties to the community. The monument bears the names of local men who died serving the Confederacy, including common names around town like Mickler, Pacetti and Ponce.

If the monument were of a different kind, like a Confederate general without local connections, he’d have a different recommendation, Regan said. He said on Tuesday that some monuments around the country are “are derivative of a very sinister period in history that are overt symbols of racism and hatred.”

----------
SEE ALSO
-----------

Part of his recommendation is about not distracting or diverting money from social justice efforts like further improving utilities in West Augustine, he said.

“I don’t want to get derailed from what we’re really doing, and if we spend our time trying to make sure that white supremacists aren’t shooting people taking down monuments … then I don’t think that’s where we need to be,” Regan said.

He wants to create a committee of up to seven people, appointed by the commission, to decide how to add historical context to the site.

But Rawls said he and others will keep seeking the monument’s removal and exposing problems in St. Augustine. The “undertone” in the city that civil rights activists experienced in the 1960s still lingers today, and there’s a strong majority of people who don’t want progress and who embrace “the oppressive spirit,” Rawls said.

Rawls, the pastor at St. Augustine’s St. Paul AME Church, pointed out a few years ago the city had no black police or firefighters — which city officials have said was mostly due to competition from bigger cities — and he said he did not expect the city to support moving the monument.

“It’s a huge effort to get something like that to happen in St. Augustine because that spirit is so strong — it’s what’s expected,” Rawls said.

Regan said his recommendation was inspired by Sandra Parks, widow of civil rights activist Stetson Kennedy, who provided the recommendation on behalf of Kennedy’s foundation. She listed other suggestions, like covering both monuments until there’s a resolution to the issue and public education about the city’s Civil War history and the monuments.

Parks also said the city could work with the state to address the monument it controls, which is memorial to Confederate Gen. William Loring in the west Plaza that is the site of his ashes.

While Regan is recommending keeping the city’s monument, moving it is a costly option that he does not support, he said. An estimate of the base cost to move it was $145,000. Taking it apart and rebuilding it would also be costly, he said.

Sarah Miller, regional director for the Florida Public Archaeology Network, said the monument wouldn’t survive a move, and she supported keeping the monument and adding historical context to the site.

“I think that shows careful consideration for the history of the monument,” Miller said.

Monday’s meeting will begin at 5 p.m., but the monument issue will be heard no earlier than 7:15 p.m. because of the Dressing Downton event and the need for overflow City Hall seating at the Lightner Museum, Regan said. It will be up to the commission when to allow public comment — they could allow it when the issue comes up, which is an item at the end of the agenda, or allow comment during general public comment toward the beginning of the meeting.

COMMENTS
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

1. Rev. Rawls is misguided. This eloquent 1872 monument to Menorcan war dead must be preserved and protected. Adding monuments is the key to contextualization of the Civil War veteran monument -- let's ADD monuments to the nuns arrested for teaching black chldren, to victims of slavery, to Dr. Robert Hayling, Stetson Kennedy, Barbara Vickers, et al.
2. Pedro Menendez ordered the first anti-Gay hate crime in North American history, the 1566 murder of "Guillermo," a Gay French interpreter of the Guale Indian language. In 2005, when GLBT people won the Rainbow flags First Amendment case in federal court, not one of the plaintiffs or their supporters would have dreamed of asking that the statue of Pedro Menendez be removed, or that the high school named for him be renamed. Instead, we won a court order to fly 49 Rainbow flags -- 42 Rainbow flags on the Bridge of Lions and seven on the Bayfront. We practiced addition, not subtraction. Rev. Rawls in contrast is a divider, not a uniter. Rawls' latest remarks above are hostile to democracy and to the polity of which he is supposedly a part-time part.
3. Rather than working for inclusion, Rev. Rawls' ugly August 21 hate rally -- in a church where Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King once spoke -- was an embarassment. Rawls is guilty of delivering an impossible ultimatum, setting up racist Doug Russo as a foil, supporting slavery in a ranting speech at St. Paul A.M.E. Then Rawls actually attempted to block Prof. Thomas Graham from speaking his mind about the monuments. Rawls' rally was not reasoned discourse, but an attempt to seek headline after Charlottesville.
4. Rawls has divided our community. Rawls' noisome anti-Gay marriage YouTube video is no longer accessible without a password, but it shows his narcissistic nature, as does his sale of the Echo House roof tiles and demolition of 2/3 of Echo House.
LikeReply81 hrEdited
Joel Darack · 

Thanks, Ed - many of us appreciate deeply your voice of reason and concern.
UnlikeReply32 hrs

Randy Crum
Rev Rawls, the statue has not been an issue until Nov of '16, when Trump won. The 8 years under Obama ruined race relations and all of a sudden it's Trump's fault. If no black fire or policeman, then talk to they black community and find out why. Did you think maybe noone in St Augustine want to do that work? Can you tell the city that no more race issues will take place after the statue is removed? If not, the statue is not the real issue or problem.
UnlikeReply77 hrs
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

I disagree. President Obama did not "ruin race relations." Racists were angry at his election, as evidenced by Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell's demonic determination to fight President Obama on anything.
LikeReply25 hrs
Bob Lynn
Finally common sense and the "people's" voice was heard.
UnlikeReply107 hrs
Sally Trump
Leave it alone be happy and leave history to wut it is history .
UnlikeReply47 hrs
Michael Gold
Robert Harper, Director of the Lightner Museum, informed Historic City News yesterday that the other event has been rescheduled to allow seating in the lobby instead of the courtyard loggia. Those arriving after The Alcazar Room has reached capacity, may fill out a comment card if they wish to speak.
UnlikeReply27 hrs
Rick Mallett · 

In this year of 2017 our two monuments which have stood in our plaza since 1872 has now been demanded for removal. These monuments were erected for remembrance as a memorial to our loved ones who gave their lives in the service of the confederate states. These monuments are pieces of our world history and even though some may take offense of it’s binding with the confederate war we did not battle in that war.
Every country across the globe has their own history of battles in war that were fought by their ancestors which some do date back to biblical times. These monuments that stand today are very old and fragile and are made from concrete and coquina. And if they are removed would only crumble. I would ask that these monuments be left where they are in memory of the lives lost. I did not fight their battles and neither did anyone else here today
UnlikeReply26 hrs
David Cash
This is the correct decision. We are a city of history, all history. We should not be trying to cover up some history while glorifying other historical events. It is what it is and trying to remove symbols of that history changes nothing. We can't try to appease race baiters like Rawls and his ilk. There is nothing we can do to satisfy his misguided hatred. Remove the monuments and his focus would shift to some other symbol he finds objectionable. There is no end to this type of attack. When people hate as Rawls and his followers do the problem is with them and theirs alone to deal with.
UnlikeReply45 hrsEdited
Clint Porter · 
Works at Retired

Rev. Rawls, maybe it's your 'noise' that continues to keep racisim alive in this country. Racism is a tool used by those wishing to destroy this country from within and many 'well-meaning' people such as yourself have fallen victim to those that use that tool.
UnlikeReply46 hrs
Bob Mack · 

The ‘Reverend’ (Rawls) should study his bible and realize that slavery was not exclusive to Africans. Israelites were slaves before Christ was born. Regarding black police officers and firefighters ...... has he even considered the reality that they were not qualified for the job requirements ? I know of at least one instance where a black man, forced to be hired as a firefighter, didn’t know the correct size hose fitting for a hydrant causing more damage than necessary. Get over it, Ron.
UnlikeReply36 hrs
Bob Mack · 

This controversy is no different than somebody saying “The bronze statue of Civil Rights foot-soldiers offends me so tear it down”.
UnlikeReply25 hrs
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

There is no Constitutional right that requires removing a 145 year old monument to war veterans because someone claims to be offended, e.g., Gainesville resident Rev. Ronald Rawls, Jr.
LikeReply5 hrsEdited
Brian Trela · 

Mr. Mack
It’s likely you didn’t learn that dog whistling at UF.
UnlikeReply15 hrs
Bob Mack · 

Edward Adelbert Slavin Exactly.....thank you for agreeing with me.
UnlikeReply12 hrs
Bob Mack · 

Brian Trela haha.....right on. Actually I learned that (and a lot more) from where I matriculated later in life. I earned my MBWA (Management By Walking Around) degree from LIFE !!!! Thanks for the comment, Brian.
UnlikeReply12 hrs
Dale Connors · 

How do you add context that will touch the soul of a people who were owned as property, lynched, tortured, denied education, had its churches bombed, its children murdered, its leaders assassinated and today fear their men will be the next one killed by police while unarmed? In the heyday of Jin Crow Florida had more lynchings than Alabama or MIssissippi. Racism is so ingrained that it has blinded reason. Not one historical artifact is worth more than a living human being. This cowardly proposal must be rejected and the community healed. Many African Americans will go to their graves beating the scars of racism. It is time to think of future generations and allow them to grow up in St Augustine In Peace and harmony as one.
UnlikeReply15 hrs
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

1. Have you been to the National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis? That's how. One of my professors, D'Army Bailey (later elected Circuit Court Judge), bought the place where Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered (Lorraine Motel) in foreclosure. With corporate funding, civil rights activists transformed the Lorraine Motel into a place where civil and human rights are honored and celebrated, and where the story of slavery, segregation, bombings, lynchings and oppression are being told to our future leaders. With a National Civil Rights Museum and St. Augustine National Historical Park and National Seashore, we will tell our story -- ALL of it -- "warts and all," as Lincoln would say.
2. Removing the Civil War veteran memorial would not promote healing. Proposing its removal shows a narcissistic streak, the notion that a non-resident demagogue should divide us for his own purposes, insouciant to the polity of which he is supposedly a part.
3. The simple palpitating truth of the matter is that the Menorcans were slaves (indentured servants) of the British in New Smyrna Beach, half of whom died of starvation and disease due to the depredations of Wm. Turnbull. Did Rev. Rawls apprecicate or deprecate this history?
4. Proposing removal of the eloquent 1872 memorial to Menorcan war dead is deeply offensive, anti-historical and divisive. As John Adams said, "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
5. "Contextualization" is a job for the National Park Service, as part of the St. Augustine National Historical Park and National Seashore, first proposed by Mayor Walter Fraser and Senator Claude Pepper in 1939.
Reply4 hrs
Dale Connors · 

Edward Adelbert Slavin The monument to a long ago time fighting to maintain slavery belongs in a museum or on private property. Not in a city owned square. However, I fully expect a poor decision by politicians. This forces the protests into a different arena which may target downtown businesses. Boycott. Be assured the fight for justice will march on and not be deterred
Reply1 hr
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

Dale Connors The City is a museum. Nation's Oldest City. What museum? We're short n museums here. We need the St. Augustine National Historical Park and National Seashore to help tell our history -- all of it -- with a National Civil Rights Museum.
LikeReply3 mins
Lisa Averill · 

Finally some common sense. Reverend Rawls..our mission as Christians is to live our lives so that others see HIM. His love. His message. Not OURS. Not YOURS. The question you could ask is "What would Jesus do?" If your "message" and if your life and if your actions are not promoting healing and love and peace in this world, I humbly submit that you are LIVING the wrong message. Your actions divide, do not heal. They are self-serving and have all the earmarks of being based on ego, in the name of "Reverend Rawls" or only one community, your community. But we are all ONE COMMUNITY, not just YOURS or MINE or THEIRS. We are St. Augustinians; We are Americans facing greater challenges and problems than what allegedly serves one group of folks. HISTORY is made up of good AND bad people and their choices or choices that were made because of their beliefs. The city manager's solution is a good one. It is sound. It is healing. Placing memorials or statements around the Confederate statues of men or women who fought for their beliefs is a rational and most of all HEALING solution. But of course, then you wouldn't have a limelight anymore. When a person acts the way I have observed you act and calls himself a representative of God, I do not see Christ nor do I see God...which as believers should be the primrary thing people see when they see, hear or think about our works and lives.
UnlikeReply25 hrs
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

Wise words. Let the healing begin.
Reply4 hrs
Ralph M. Reese · 

Rev. Rawls, I am certain that you are going to reimburse the City for all costs, aren't you?
UnlikeReply138 mins
Edward Adelbert Slavin · 

Movng the monument would destroy it. It's coquina and masonry.

1 comment:

Warren Celli said...

My. My.

The power of the intentionally created, "Perpetual Conflict in the Masses Program", is working beyond the xtrevilist's wildest dreams!

"Placing memorials or statements around the Confederate statues of men or women who fought for their beliefs is a rational and most of all HEALING solution."

All the fantasy invoked in that comment aside, I could go along with that as long as one of the surrounding memorials is a "Fountain of Baloney™. Certainly no one would object to the Fountain of Baloney™, or... would we just open the door to another round of increased conflict?

Otherwise tear it down and incorporate it into our much needed larger sea walls so that we won't all drown while trying to rid ourselves of this murderous gangster government.

http://saintaugdog.com/