Monday, July 17, 2017

City of St. Augustine not enforcing rules that limit where people can panhandle (SAR)

SAR/Peter Willott

Some of ex-CITY ATTORNEY RONALD WAYNE BROWN'S unjust laws are no longer being enforced. Three cheers for federal courts. Looking forward to resolution of the visual artists lawsuit Bates v. City of St. Augustine (Bates II) and to the restoration of our rights to sing, play music and create art in Our Nation's Oldest City.

Posted July 12, 2017 07:56 pm - Updated July 13, 2017 05:52 am
City of St. Augustine not enforcing rules that limit where people can panhandle

The city of St. Augustine is no longer enforcing rules that restrict where people can panhandle downtown.

City Code prohibits panhandling in much of the historic area, including on St. George Street, in the Plaza de la Constitucion and near the Castillo de San Marcos.

But the city decided in 2016 to no longer enforce those restrictions after a court case raised concerns about the constitutionality of the rules, City Attorney Isabelle Lopez said.

The U.S. District Court case in Tampa pitted Homeless Helping Homeless Inc., which raised funds by soliciting in downtown Tampa and other areas, against city of Tampa restrictions that prohibited soliciting money in certain areas, according to the court order.

The order in 2016, which applied U.S. Supreme Court opinion in a sign regulations case called Reed vs. Town of Gilbert, stopped Tampa from banning panhandling in downtown Tampa and other areas, according to the order.

“If someone is just sitting there and not harassing you, not blocking your path, not otherwise behaving in a way where it would trigger aggressive panhandling, then they [have] a constitutional right to that speech,” Lopez said.

For the city of St. Augustine, the case meant that parts of City Code that prohibit panhandling in certain areas are questionable, Lopez said.

“That’s why we have voluntarily chosen not to enforce prohibitions on panhandling that are simply based on zone geography,” Lopez said.

The city also isn’t enforcing time-of-day restrictions on panhandling, according to Lopez.

The city still enforces its rules against aggressive panhandling, which has a long definition but prohibits panhandling in a way that would harass or intimidate, involve touching people or vehicles without consent, blocking vehicles or people, or continuing to ask for money after being told no.

The city could draft new City Code on the matter. One consideration is that the city is still in mediation in a First Amendment-related case, Lopez said. In that case, four artists filed a lawsuit challenging the city’s rules on creating and selling art in public places.

Reed vs. Town of Gilbert, and a lawsuit, also led the city of St. Augustine Beach to change its sign regulations. But St. Augustine Beach is still enforcing its panhandling ordinance, according to St. Augustine Beach Police Department Cmdr. Thomas Ashlock.

Beach City Code prohibits panhandling of people in motor vehicles on public roads, either from the road or near the edge of the road. Beach City Code says the law does not prohibit asking for donations from pedestrians on sidewalks.

For Michael Meagher, who said he makes $733 a month from Supplemental Security Income, panhandling has helped him survive.

He sat on St. George Street near Cathedral Place on Wednesday afternoon with a sign in front of his legs that read, “vision impaired and homeless.”

“I avoid this area because of the hardcore drunks that hang out down here, but I was starving out, I mean I hadn’t eaten in almost a week, and this got me through,” he said.

He recently learned of the city’s lack of enforcement of panhandling regulations from a friend, who knew he needed food and suggested he go downtown to make some money.

“He said, ‘As long as you don’t ask for anything, and as long as you don’t harass the tourists, and your sign simply says what your problem is and that you’re homeless, there’s no problem,’” he said.

He said he agrees with the city still prohibiting aggressive panhandling, adding that in his opinion church people who stand in the middle of the road are aggressively panhandling but get away with it.

He said law enforcement treat homeless people equally, throwing good and bad people out of the woods. Also, some people have tried to make homeless people look bad and that they should be thrown out of town, he said.

He knows of five people who, like him, are disabled and take medication and don’t drink, he said. They are homeless in the St. Augustine area.

“I think if they would take care of the alcoholics, treat alcoholism like it’s a disease because it is, and quit screwing around with not doing anything about it, life on the street would very quickly disappear because without the alcoholics causing all the turmoil, people … out here would actually begin to care again, and that’s the thing that really hurts,” he said.

The lack of enforcement in St. Augustine hasn’t appeared to spike complaints about panhandling, said Assistant St. Augustine Police Chief Anthony Cuthbert.

“We still get some complaints about it,” Cuthbert said. “It doesn’t seem the complaints have risen any more than we used to get.”

Violating the city’s panhandling regulations can be punished with a fine of up to $500 or up to 60 days in jail, or some combination of both, according to City Code.

Even though police aren’t enforcing restrictions on where people can panhandle, Cuthbert said police respond to all calls for service and will try to dissuade people from panhandling and try to direct them to services if necessary. They will also enforce rules regarding aggressive panhandling.

“We’ll always respond down there to any issues or complaints they have. … We don’t want people to think we’ve just abandoned it,” Cuthbert said.


Just let the panhandlers run rampant...They will chase the tourists / natives right out of town. Great way to clear the neighborhood, and solve the parking problem.

Bret Namztlam
keep changing the codes so everything turns in to south Florida and jax own neighborhood is experiencing greed and profit bearing mongrels and property barons. there was code to protect the historic areas and beautiful family neighborhoods. guess if you have enough money, you get to change the codes in your profit scummy life. this is all to accommodate cars,trolleys and tourist. our neighborhood , along with the bicycle shops and the mom pop shops were here long before any of these. just what was the sense in making codes if property barons break them like we eat a bag of chips. this is the beginning of the eraser of old saint augustine. gentrification, plain and simple. pretty soon there wont be any locals left except dogs and cats. Im gonna wear mickey mouse ears with a dont hassle me Im a local T shirt. we are losing our neighborhoods to all just for the cars. everything in saint augustine has been changed to accommodate cars,buses and trolleys. parking and access are more important. no one even considered the people that who have lived here and are still living for here. generations to come,literally. how unintelligent, they are wiping out what people came here to see and experience in the first place. Florida already has a Disney world, palm beach and miami beach. to the people who say ya cant stop progress..... your idiots, surprised if ya can tie your shoes in the morn. to the property baron , can I build a parking lot or a McDonald next to your home and in your neighborhood?

Slate Creek
I've noticed how none of their signs say will work for food anymore. Now they just want handouts. Some of these people are in better shape than me and I work 50 hours a week. I say if they don't pay taxes and don't contribute to our community then get rid of them.

Tom Reynolds
COME ON BIG SLATE......................... YOUR IN GREAT SHAPE !

COME ON BIG CREEK .......................YOU DON'T NEED NO SLEEP !


Just a question SC,

If the person who is panhandling is unfit to work because of a disability,


Linda Matlin
That's a bit harsh. There are many people in need and if you think they are pretending, step in their shoes for a day. Come volunteer.

Special One
Where exactly should they go?

Tom Reynolds


Another PROBLEM SOLVED by MEeeeeeeeeee !

i'm good !

Rick Saunders
I'm cool with this as it must mean we now have a constitutional right to the free speech of making art and playing music now, too! Huzzah!

Sponger2 Harvell
I find it amusing that "The City" won't enforce bums begging ordinances, but spent thousands of dollars in court costs and lawyers to prevent street entertainment that was a real attraction here less than twenty years ago.

Jim Olds
So as a local and street performer who pays property taxes in St Augustine and has tried my best to entertain tourists and add something lively and entertaining to the city for many years, I guess the key to getting around the restrictive artist and street performing rules is to put down my music, dress down and and start flying a sign. Heck why not, it is easier than sitting out there and actually trying to be entertaining or adding something to the downtown scene.....Let's see.... what will it be.....My dog is hungry and need heart meds, I am too old to work, My wife doesn't understand me, I'm too lazy to actually do anything...I will think of something. What do you think...I am sure the mayor would love to hear from you....

Linda Matlin
So panhandlers and evangelists are allowed downtown on the street but musicians and people selling crafts are not? Seeing the musicians and craftspeople is what had me returning to St. Augustine! Something is wrong with this picture. St. Francis house is very nearby with meals daily - no one should be hungry.

1 comment:

Warren Celli said...

"Even though police aren’t enforcing restrictions on where people can panhandle, Cuthbert said police respond to all calls for service and will try to dissuade people from panhandling and try to direct them to services if necessary. They will also enforce rules regarding aggressive panhandling."

Who set the policy for police officers to, under the color of law, "try to dissuade people from panhandling"?

What kind of dissuasion is allowed?

What is the dissuasion policy?

Who conceived and drafted this illegal and immoral policy and is it in writing?

Chief of Fleece Barry Fox?

Or is his real boss, city mangler John Regan responsible for it?

Did the gangster city commissioners vote on this?

Do officers try and dissuade citizens from their right to use the state alcohol and tobacco drug cartel products sold in many of Pig Tourism's roadside joints?

Who controls the city switches that so arbitrarily and capriciously turn these scam Jim Crow 'rules of law' on and off like traffic lights?

And why, if the 'laws' were turned off in 2016, are we hearing about it now?

Butt sucking, check chasing coward cops who refuse to push back on arbitrary unconstitutional laws, and instead selectively enforce them, are responsible for creating more crime than they can ever hope to solve. Case closed!

Crooked City,
Crooked Cops,
Don't Buy,
In Greedy Shops!

BOYCOTT Pig Tourism!