Tuesday, November 01, 2022

Part 1 of NextDoor comments on proposed 155 sales tax increase

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Commissioners regarding the 1-percent sales tax referendum.

Tommy Prothrow
Henry, I know this is hard to understand but let me say it as simply as possible, Stop the growth, no more developments, no more funding for developments of anything, of any kind, ever, for ten years. We will save 500 million! Then we can proceed to grow again. Stop tax and spend, stop it! VOTE NO ON NEW TAXES!! Thanks for the letter, it only serves to clarify why we need NO MORE DEVELOPMENT FOR 10 YEARS!
3 days ago
Michelle B.
Tommy Prothrow
Dylan Thom
Tommy
how do you plan to facilitate that? Are we going to put walls up around St A?
3 days ago
Richey Esbin
@Dylan
make it like alot of other places Make developers pay actual cost of impact Stop saying yes to all developers when land is unsuitable for development without having to fill wetlands
2 days ago
Tommy Prothrow
Michelle B.
Think about it really hard and you will come up with the right answer. I promise you. The point is to stop the unbridled growth in it;s tracks. You are focused on the wrong part of the story.
(edited)
1d
Tommy Prothrow
Richey Esbin
Exactly, you get it. You really get it. St. Johns County residents, focused, driven and career minded professionals have been bamboozled by developers and city council members. While you were focused on building the best lifestyle for yourselves the developers and others sold it right out from under you. Now you have overpopulated, saturated, congested parking lot freeways and cookie cutter stores and PUDS on PUDS where once pastures and streams, green fields of life prospered and wildlife was in abundance. All of the reasons you moved here have been paved over, sold out, and now you may as well be living in some other 1 million populated plus, plus, city in the south.
1 day ago
Sherry Horner
Tommy Prothrow
You need to go back to the l950s and it is to late to stop the growth in Fla or St. Johns. County. You are never going to stop the development of Florida or any other state in the US. Fla is just the best an has the least problems and our governing factors have to accommodate the growth and work with developers and builders to accomodate this growth.
1 day ago
William Abbott
We have already lost our wonderful little town, due to build,build,build, You should have thought of all this before bringing all this on this little town. The houses being built are overpriced and because of that the people who've caused all this want us to pay for the mess they've created. NO
3 days ago
James Byrd
William
We incrementally lost our wonderful little town the day each of us moved here to pursue the American Dream. If one lives here one is part of the problem, as much as the newbie that built yesterday. Certainly growth needs to be adequately regulated to areas suitable for building, but we all,as residents, contributed to the build, build problem when we came from wherever we were previously.
1 day ago
Grace Van Velsor
We are not at a crossroads here! STOP THE GROWTH! You've put the cart before the horse and now expect us to pay. You built it so they will come and want the locals to pay for it. This is the county's problem, not the citizens. If the fees weren't high enough for the developers to develop then it should not have been approved. Get your heads out of your behinds and look at the whole picture and say "can my county support this?". Trying to ask for forgiveness instead of permission will backfire.
3 days ago
Mokhtar C.
Henry does not seem to know the difference between informing and threatening. The county will do just fine without you and your tax. VOTE NO!!
3 days ago
Christie Mallatt
@Mokhtar does appear to be ultimatum and honestly it is picking between the lesser of 2 evils.
3 days ago
Trish Creegan
Mokhtar I kind of got that out of his letter also. I read it a couple times, I will be damned if I would vote to let these men and women blow another $500 million. They need to figure it out and if the fees from developers are not enough than no more development or as in regular political fashion they can rename the fees and make what they have work. This comes under the heading not my problem and I am voting no.
1 day ago
Patti Walker
Major typo in that first paragraph… Nobody proposed a 1 percent sales tax increase (as written). It’s 1 cent on the dollar, which amounts to right at 15% increase. I’m quite sure that was not an accident.
3 days ago
Terry H.
Patti Walker
and that is part of the problem - zero fiscal responsibility - the county spends money like it grows on trees
3 days ago
Pat Lanpher
Patti Walker
: Great point and good catch. They try to fool us with their numbers. How could he not know it is 15% increase because he is the one proposing it? Also, if they are charging developers the maximum allowed under FL law, when have the commissioners gone to Gov. DeSantis to get that maximum raised to where it should be? Maybe Sen. Hutson would object to that, however.
3 days ago
Matt P.
Maybe there ought to be a law against politicians mischaracterizing sales tax increases. Pols minimize the tax hit by calling it a one-penny, or 1 percent increase, and the news media (admittedly the vast majority of them are very bad at math) plays along. An increase in the sales tax rate from 6.5% to 7.5% is a 15.4 percent increase. That's the number that really matters. Under the current rate, your sales tax on a $500 purchase would be $32.50. Under the sales tax hike, it would be $37.50, or 15.4% more. (An actual 1 percent increase in the sales tax would lift it from 6.5 cents on the dollar to 6.565 cents.)
2 days ago
Leila Lassetter
Donnie
a once cent increase - mathematically the difference between 6.5 cents vs 7.5 cents is 15.4%
2 days ago
Leila Lassetter
And furthermore, the current allocation to St. John’s is .5 of the 6.5 rate so an increase of 1 cent / .5 cent is actually a 200% increase. With inflation being as high as it is, this is poor timing to request such an increase. Most developers get major tax breaks and as such, communities often find themselves in this same situation where the residents pay for growth as developers line their pockets. Add to that the fact we need more private sector investments to help with more creature comfort’s… expect only that any additional tax collections will go towards helping fund deals to increase more businesses to build to bring more jobs and goods to generate more taxes. It’s basic economics. Lose lose for people- unless you want this small town to turn into Jacksonville .
2 days ago
Wanda Nolastname
Patti
correct!!!!!!
1 day ago
Scott Fricks
I am absolutely for growth but not for paying to grow. We're all creatures of incentive and consciously or subconsciously asking, WIIFM (whats in in for me?). Will I reap the benefit of thousands of dollars spent? More crowded roads? More crowded beaches? More construction? More environmental impact? For me, the downside WAY outweighs the upside. I'll pass on paying more taxes when my retirement account is down 25%. Thanks but no... If you want to grow, pass the cost to those who want to be part of the growth.
3 days ago
Karen J.
Scott
100% this!!
3 days ago
John Cononie
@Scott
I feel your pain I'm with you 100%. Stop the taxes stop uncontrolled building !
1 day ago
Nicole Crosby
Commissioner Dean, thank you for starting a conversation with us. I have great respect for you and your role in securing our precious Guana Reserve for the state of Florida. However, we don't consider the widening of Mickler and Palm Valley Roads (cost $29 million) to be a capital project or a backlog - as these projects are called by the county. We don't want to create a highway from the NW part of the county to our single access Mickler Beach, changing the character of neighborhoods (like mine) on the Mickler corridor, chopping into the Guana Reserve for miles and bringing down hundreds of trees. If it has to happen someday, so be it. But not today. We also don't need a $50 million Command Center for the police. We already pay among the highest per capita in Florida for law enforcement, and our crime is low. Let's see the data and justification for it. Those are just two of many projects for which there is not a consensus. You've said the costs to the county of development were solved after 2018 when impact fees were set at the max. Then please help us understand why you told Action News Jax that the cost of SilverLeaf would be $50 million from our tax revenues for road needs. This was right after we overwhelmingly opposed the project at the hearing AND in emails. (Almost all of the email supporters of the project worked for SilverLeaf in some way and/or lived outside of our county.) We don't trust that we'll have a voice in a citizen committee any more than we have a voice in the developer-dominated PZA. Heck, we don't even have a voice in general public comments, and have to sit for hours to talk for three minutes - discouraging almost everyone from publicly voicing their views. Finally, the PAC behind the half million dollar ad campaign pushing the tax increase has the same address and phone number as those of SilverLeaf developer Travis Hutson. Businesses don't invest that kind of money without looking for a major return, i.e. massive investment in roads in NW St. Johns County. How about a poll to gather input from residents on how WE want to see our money spent?? No one has asked us. We don't trust a hand-picked committee to make such decisions. Thank you and have a great weekend.
3 days ago
James Newoc
Nicole Crosby
Excellent response! San Jose already looks like Blanding Blvd.
3 days ago
Kit B.
Nicole
Agreed. I have owned a home off state road 13 for 30 years plus. It used to have beautiful old oak trees with spanish moss….slowly but surely, tree by tree is being destroyed. St. john’s county used to boast beautiful scenic drive alongside St. john’s on one side and beautiful beaches on other side.
3 days ago
Tracy Considine
Nicole Crosby
Truth in what you say.
1 day ago
Tommy Prothrow
Nicole Crosby
I'm a Ponte Vedra Beach/Palm Valley native and I can't help but see the changes in our community and do a compare and contrast from then to now. A few weeks back I drove to Daytona, I took the long way, ended up in Port Orange. Oh my, there is no wilderness left. Everything is an off ramp, with a strip mall, a few developments, gas stations, storage centers, concrete, fast food joints and on ramps. 250,000 people moved here in the last few years and soon, I believe our area, Mickler's, what's left of Palm Valley, and especially Jax Beach area is changing and will never be the small little beach town and country living places we once loved and grew up on. Those days are gone forever. I might end up moving to Alaska.
1 day ago
Nicole Crosby
Tommy Prothrow
I can only imagine the changes you've seen. Hopefully we've awakened in the nick of time to stop our county from becoming truly destroyed. (I've heard it's COLD in Alaska!) :-)
1 day ago
Susan Henry
The county is getting ready to fund- i understand a matching “ grant” to build a trail/ path in our neighborhood which is certainly not necessary - would save 800k - maybe we should compile a list of all these projects and present them with savings. No more taxes - only spend what is absolutely necessary.
3 days ago
Terry H.
Susan Henry
like the new boat ramp behind Home Depot
3 days ago
Victoria S.
Susan
.. yep fix what’s broken.. not build new .. once our infrastructure is up to date then consider new projects on a case by case basis .. not blindly rubber stamp everyone that comes to them for approval.. and LISTEN to the residents concerns..
(edited)
1d
Marty Janowiecki
Victoria even if the tax is not approved just watch the commissioners they’ll keep on approving new developments and increasing the problem like they’ve been doing for the last 5 years. They knew they were creating a massive deficit but did it anyway to satisfy the developers who own them. So now they’re holding a gun to the voters’ heads, and saying “tax yourselves or you’ll sit in even more traffic”
2 days ago
John Cononie
@Susan
Amen !!
1 day ago
Stephan Avery
I’m cool with kicking it down the road. It won’t get too far because of the traffic but that’s ok
3 days ago
Erik Peterson
This is really a bad idea. Increase taxes for the entire county and visitors so the developers and their crooked partners can use our $ to pay for the development they said they would. This tax increase is not for the residents of St. John’s county. Vote no.
3 days ago
Danny Knee
Vote no.
3 days ago
Carolee Setser
Make the developers pay for infrastructure!!!!! Development is out of control putting more stress on infrastructure. Im voting NO to the penny tax.
3 days ago
Terry H.
Carolee Setser not the penny tax - 15% tax
3 days ago
Carolee Setser
Terry
Voting NO for that also
3 days ago
Nicole Crosby
Terry H.
an accountant friend was highly insulted by the "penny tax" slogan - he felt it was an obvious manipulation.
3 days ago
Stephan Avery
Hutson should look at it this way. If there’s tons of traffic to his new development the sales people can say “see all that bumper to bumper traffic. It proves this area is popular”
3 days ago
Stephan Avery
I’d point out the Spanish didn’t raise taxes for roads
3 days ago
Ron C.
Stephan
what kind of roads did the Spanish have ?
(edited)
3d
Ron M.
@Ron
Kings Rd. , Paved brick road.
3 days ago
Stephan Avery
Ron
sufficient
3 days ago
Ron C.
Stephan
if you say so. You seem to be like google.
3 days ago
Stephan Avery
Ron
point is. They didn’t have to ask residents to tax themselves
3 days ago
Ron C.
Stephan
I understand that
3 days ago
Deborah T.
We shouldn't have built homes if the developers, builders and those living in these homes didn't have a means to pay for it out of their share of their pockets. We shouldn't have to pay for costs associated for their projects.
(edited)
3d
Stephan Avery
Deborah but it doesn’t
3 days ago
Mike Cautero
I’d gladly pay a little more to support many of these projects and increase property values. I’m glad I voted yes!
3 days ago
Deborah T.
Mike Cautero
Higher property values have little value when the people who were born and raised here cannot afford rent or to buy a home. Their salaries haven't changed or their retirement checks haven't increased to keep up with these changes. The increase in property values came from the demand of people moving here from other states where homes were 4X's the cost, and now we are approaching an equilibrium. The only difference is that many of them are getting the same salaries they made in states like CA, MA, NY and they reaped the benefits of a home a quarter of the price, banking the rest. What do people do who have lived here all their lives and are getting Florida salaries? What good is a high-priced home, if the next home you move into is also high? It's like coming home and telling your spouse, honey, guess what, I just received a $5,000 raise, but our rent is now $6,000 more a year OR honey, let's go buy a house, I just received a $5,000 raise....but heck, the same house we wanted last year is now $150,000 more.
(edited)
3d
Fred Janz
Mike
you realized there are som 3000 homes approvals being held back till after the election. Mileage rates are next to be raised. How well is the tax increase for schools working?
(edited)
3d
Mike Cautero
Fred
we have the best schools in the state. So I’d say it worked n
3 days ago
Mike Cautero
Deborah I’m not sure what you’re saying has to do with the sales tax proposal. Property values have increased all throughout the state.
3 days ago
Ron C.
Mike
are you an ostrich with your head in the sand ?
3 days ago
Jodi Kotrady-Hatin
Mike
how long can the schools sustain this level? Tocoi Creek had over 600 students in their freshman class last year and this year. They are busting at the seams.
2 days ago
Lori Weitzel
Mike
I’m a teacher….**had
2 days ago
Ed Slavin
Mike Cautero
Our St. Johns County School Board needs reforming. Why would St. Augustine High School Wrestling Team be subjected to moldy mats, stored in showers, 2021-2022? School Supt. and School Board were insouciant when wrestling team captain, his father and I tried to get them to replace the moldy mats. "Best schools" don't have moldy wrestling mats. Chairman Dean was a high school wrestler in Iowa, and he told me that he would "not set foot on a moldy wrestling mat." "I'm done," our School Supt. told Mr. Gene Griffin and I in December 2021 when we first tried to talk too him about it. Unlike some of our school principals, School Sujpt. does not have a doctorate degree.
2 days ago
Ed Slavin
Fred Janz
There are more on the agenda for November 1 meeting.
2 days ago
Trish Creegan
Deborah those people won’t be able to afford it as the economy keeps getting worse due to current leadership,so maybe some projects can be stopped or put on hold. If we do the right thing during this election maybe we can change st Augustine’s course just a bit
1 day ago
Ken Sivulich
Mr. Dean--were you comissioners to have specified how the $$$ were to be spent (as I recommended months ago), rather than generic areas giving you leeway to spend it at will, perhaps there might be more support fr the penny increase. As it is, we will be voting NO as we don't trust you guys to do the right thing. For example, too many approvals for new construction w/o addressing the problems created
3 days ago
Terry H.
Ken Sivulich
it is called OPM that is what the municipal people call it - OPM = other peoples money - and they love to spend it on anything attractive to them
3 days ago
Jason Bird
Ken
as written the commission doesn’t get to say where it goes. The citizen board will be chosen and they get to prioritize and allocate the funds so that the commission can’t spend it on just whatever, the county just gave a list of what they see as some of the needs. That’s all part of the state laws that govern such sales tax and also includes oversight and audit rules.
3 days ago
Kathy E.
Ken
HEAR! HEAR!
2 days ago
Michael Gregory
The quality of life is gone because you won't stop letting developers build. It's not like it's locals buying these properties. It's people coming from states that they already ruined and now want to come here and ruin Florida. There is no amount of money we could give you politicians that would make them happy. NONE. If we were taxed at a 90 percent rate they would STILL say they needed more money. They would want to know why we don't pay 91 percent? They want more money and give us less quality of life. All of us in this area might as well move off of San Jose Blvd because that's what Racetrack road looks like now. Cunningham Creek might as well be a part of Rivertown since it's petty much going to be surrounded by it. Please tell me exactly what I got for my money the last time you raised taxes? Seriously, what is it? I don't have a new house. My kids don't go to a new school. There isn't a new library. My road isn't any wider. It's just busier. Traffic stinks. The rude people moving in are terrible. So please remind me again how my life is better? It isn't. You are taking away Saint Johns and making us Jacksonville again. The points I'm trying to make are this: 1. We the unwashed masses have no say so. You're kidding yourselves if think differently. If every one of us was 100 percent against growth they would still vote for it. The representative republic I defended in uniform for 20 years doesn't exist at this level. 2. There is no amount of money we will ever be able to give our government that will ever be enough. No amount whatsoever. We will never see any benefit of this. A new development isn't progress. a new road isn't progress. it's just more people and more traffic ruining our area. 3. Outsiders from ruined states are the ones buying everything. Not us. Their goal is to make our Florida a NY, NJ, CA, etc. They ruined those places and they want to ruin here as well. And our politicians let them. I just hope the 30 pieces of silver you get from the developers that you sold your political souls to is worth it. We are the ones suffering. Apparently not you.
3 days ago
William Mullaney
@Michael
Nobody is moving to Florida to ruin it. Florida has been doing this for a hundred years now by literally begging people to move here and live. We are the victims of generations of untethered development and greed. The only way to control it is through government regulation and most Floridians are brainwashed to believe they'll become socialists if they stray from market economics. The very people who have raped and pillaged Florida for years have insured that the party will continue until the whole state sinks into the ocean because we still haven't figured out that we are being hoodwinked.
2 days ago
James Byrd
Michael
I have a close friend who recently retired from the NYPD, was injured responding to the Twin Tower tragedy. His family will move to Florida and has considered St. Augustine. Just wondering how he feels being described as a New Yorker who has ruined his state and now wishes to move here in order to ruin our state. Did I mention he is also a combat wounded veteran?
1 day ago
Trish Creegan
William
hoodwinked hardly lol. Government regulations are the cause of the problem,I certainly would not trust a citizen board picked by this group of politicians. Nor do I think most Floridian are brainwashed just the opposite, we are perfectly comfortable gathering information and making decisions. I for one am confident I won’t for any reason become a socialist. That it is why it is important to vote, things won’t change overnight but we can slow it down. I will vote no because I think the government at this point is very irresponsible with money and we should shut off the faucet.
1 day ago
Ken Sivulich
But Mike, we do not know how they will spend it. Hope your penny is not wasted, should it pass, but don't think it wil.
3 days ago